The status quo of the American concert industry is not particularly accommodating to promoters who lack corporate sponsorship. Top-level talent controls the majority of large-scale venues in the U.S.; there is generally little room for new talent to develop or make due. However, as Wal-Mart and Target have their lesser but still-inspired mom & pop competitors, so do Clear Channel, House Of Blues and AEG - with locals like Charlie Kassay Jr. of Deuces Wild Productions.

Based in Long Island, New York, 'Charlie' has brought in gold and platinum-selling artists to venues he's been a promoter for. He has presented hundreds of billings featuring well-respected artists. His long-standing weekly engagement at Long Island’s Saints & Sinners warranted plenty of coverage in area rags like Newsday and Under The Volcano.

I recently spent one Friday night at a Deuces Wild-presented show at the Smithtown Masonic Temple - my first “indie” Long Island show since the days of Christian McKnight and Feet First Presents, or Jay Alvino’s Ultra Sound Lounge. I was immediately impressed by the caliber of talent. The Modern featuring Derrick of The Reunion Show and James from The Waiting Process, SpeedSpeedSpeed had Steve and Karen from This Year’s Model, With Every Idle Hour included Lou Fontana from On The Might Of Princes…Not exactly members of Blue Oyster Cult or Twisted Sister there, but reminders of Long Island’s musical heritage.

Feeling inspired by the bands I’d seen on this particular night, and the fact that all of this could be seen for less than 10 dollars, I asked Charlie if he would be up for some Q&A, which he kindly was. Below is a crash-course in the past, present, and future of “the scene” on Long Island:

Cityzen: How did you end up running Deuces Wild Productions?

Charles Kassay, Jr: Like most other great things when they come together, Deuces Wild Productions was what you’d call a “happy accident.” It’s kind of a funny coincidence, but the lineup for one of the bands who played the last show I booked, called SpeedSpeedSpeed, partially came together at another show I put on during my days at Saints & Sinners. Well, a friend of mine, Matt Dallow - whom some might know from the Microwave Orphans, Space Robot Scientists and eventually The Repercussions - was going to a birthday party thrown by Danielle Susskraut at Saints & Sinners for Will Link. Matt Dallow knew Danielle was going to try to start booking there (after her time at Union Square Lounge came to an end), and that I wanted to try my hand at putting together shows too. Matt invited me as a guest to this party. There Danielle and I would eventually come together in our own right, yet again at another random event at Saints & Sinners. She had done her thing under the Quirky Promotions banner for years… Our merger came somewhat by accident from two totally different worlds and had very a shy and humble beginning, with neither of us quite sure how it would work out—which is why I came up with the new name, Deuces Wild Productions, for the two of us. I knew we were both definitely taking a huge risk starting over to work together like we were…She’s since quit the Deuces Wild team though, and is doing promotional work for an amazing all-female roller derby league she’s involved with called The Rockabetty Bruisers. But I don’t begrudge her for a single choice she’s made and I’m just happy to have learned all of the things from her I did in our time together like I did.

CZ: A particular billing of yours stands out to me: you had Dearly Departed, Cardia and Imaginary Baseball League play together. Is there a show that you put together that really stands out for you?

CKJ: I put together a show a week for about three years at Saints & Sinners, and so I feel like that’s asking Wade Boggs or somebody like that which of his 3,000 career hits was his favorite. (Laughs.) It’s hard to choose, but I suppose some do stand out. My first birthday show - with On The Might Of Princes, Earthling Massive, Regarding I, and Aeschylus - was extra special. I felt like all of them were the future of the scene at the time, and so it meant a lot to have them all on one show. A show I did with Dearly Departed, As Tall As Lions and Kiss The Bottle was particularly amazing as well. The first time my partner Danielle booked Chromelodeon was pretty incredible in it own right, because you could tell the audience was totally stunned and never saw anything like that before in their lives. I almost took the most satisfaction in things like that; booking bands like Satellite Lost their very first shows or seeing The Devil Himself blow away the audience each and every time they played a show. But, if I had to name any one event that was probably the most special, it was the very first Halloween show we ever did at Saints & Sinners.

[Former drummer of Come Down] Nicole Keiper and I were just talking about it recently, and that night, when Come Down played as Smashing Pumpkins, This Year’s Model played as Alice In Chains, and With Every Idle Hour tore the roof down as Van Halen, it not only was an incredible event for all of the bands involved but it was the first time I started to feel like “Wow. We’ve really got something going here at Saints & Sinners. We’re going to be all-right. We’re going to be all-right.”

CZ: Any upcoming Deuces Wild Productions events you’re psyched about?

CKJ: I can’t say anything specifically right now because the shows aren’t officially 100% put together yet, but I will say I’m working on something I call “reunion winter.” One show could potentially be surreal in just how surprised the audience is going to be that it all came together like it did, and the next one is going to be surreal in a way only the bands involved can bring it. I’m shooting for the last Friday in December and the first in January collectively. So folks on Long Island better be keeping their calendars open for these two events so they can end their 2005 and then begin their 2006 all over again righteously!

CZ: Travis Shettel from Piebald did a solo album a few years ago, which contained the following lyric: “Promoters take the cash and labels take the cash and I’m the one who quit my job.” Is that a realistic perspective for an artist to have?

CKJ: I hate questions like this. I remember going to a show The Repercussions played on Long Island once to watch them play and seeing it run so incredibly poorly, it was hard for me not to freak out and want to take the whole thing over. I’ve also heard tons of horror stories from friends’ bands like Trashed On Fiction and Playing Dead as well, or seen columns Bill Florio of The Shemps would write satirizing promoters in NYC, and so it’s almost impossible to deny the reality of those lyrics. It hurts my heart when I see and hear about those things too, but I think it’s like everything else in the world. But for all of the horror stories I’ve heard, I’ve heard of people like Mike (of the band Something About Vampires And Sluts) and the amazing job he does putting together shows in Myrtle Beach, South Carolina. I’ve heard great things about a place called Connections in New Jersey, and the same thing goes for Ashbury Lanes there as well. I can’t deny that a lot of promoters you meet are going to live up to every stale bullshit rock ‘n’ roll cliché you’ve ever seen and try to fleece your pockets empty. It really does sometimes seem like there’s some book out there that hasn’t been updated since the 1970s that certain promoters still read and live by for sure, but that’s not all that’s out there. So while I can’t ever dare say the good out number the bad as far as promoters go, the key to me, like anything else, is just to try to find some honest folks you know you can trust, call your friends and network with them as much as you can to protect yourself from the more horrible experiences you’re inevitably always going to have as a band as well.

CZ: How would you recommend a promoter go about building an audience to a specific weekly night or event?

CKJ: I honestly couldn’t give you a bona-fide formula for success, except for consistency, persistence, hard work, patience and time. All clichés in their own right, but I think in our instant coffee universe, it’s something that’s easily forgotten. Some would say trying to put together shows at a bar on Long Island every Thursday night like I did was a fool’s bet. I not only had to deal with the fact that it was a Thursday night gig on Long Island, and that nobody even knew who Deuces Wild Productions were at first, but I also had to contend with all of the abysmal preconceived notions and ideas folks had about bars that were built up and perpetuated by far too many lame, sorry and boring promoters and bar-owners out there that were just looking to simply line their pockets with money. If I were a kid in a band on Long Island, I sure as hell wouldn’t necessarily want to get involved with me or that either. (Laughs) But the simple fact that I put more heart in than most probably reasonably should in this business, tried to take care of everyone who came in the door like I would like to be and worked my ass off week in and week out, it alone helped make an evening that-even by my own accounts never should have been that way-a staple for shows in and around my area.

CZ: What do you wish more people knew about the idea of promoting a show?

CKJ: I wish more people knew that it was a job. I wish more people knew that it was hard work. I wish more people knew it was about the music, not money, ego, politics, or bands with breakdowns. Those are things that are seemingly always going to be a part of things on Long Island. More power to you if you want to make money, make a change with your music, or even if you like bands with breakdowns, but I despise the mentality that forgets the importance of the music in and of itself. Maybe it’s because I grew up listening to Nirvana, and so I realize there’s something more important than just how many records you sell or how much money you make. Maybe it’s because one of my favorite artists of all-time is John Lennon, and I didn’t see him sacrificing his artistic standards to write songs like “Woman Is The Nigger Of The World” or “Imagine.” Maybe it’s because I know bands of Long Island’s past - like Mind Over Matter, Milhouse or Garden Variety - were influenced by things far greater than just the hardcore scene around them at the time. I just don’t like route thinking, the mental traps people fall into or anything that distracts away from the importance of the music. Without the music, there’d be no reason to put on or go to any of these shows in the first place, and so it’s what first and foremost should be important beyond anything else.

CZ: Do you find MySpace a helpful tool in bringing down people to see local bands? Or is it another distraction?

CKJ: I am not a Luddite of any kind. I’ve never been against the Internet as a promotional tool for bands or shows, and I sometimes feel like MySpace is as populist as BYOFL.org is in its own right. It’s a free forum for promoters and bands to get their music out there and across to the masses, and in some ways because it doesn’t just appeal to a niche audience it’s probably even more populist than BYOFL.org. Yep, you’re hearing me right. I did actually just say what you thought I just said, but the real problem to me, like anything else on the Internet, is that it can become far too much of a crutch. Nothing beats face-to-face contact in human relationships, and nothing beats face-to-face contact or handing out flyers at shows either. MySpace and the Internet are both great means to help you reach out and do what you want to do better, but an event invitation on a computer is easy to dismiss. It’s total guilt-free rejection, and so nothing beats the old-school style look in the eyes of handing out a flyer. CZ: In your opinion, was the closing of The Downtown, Long Island’s then-premiere standing-room-only venue a good thing? Or a bad thing?

CKJ: It might surprise some people to hear this, since The Downtown is probably the single greatest competition I had as an underground DIY promoter—especially since it’s a competition, due to their immense resources and power in the scene, you often couldn’t help but lose as well—but I don’t think the closing of any venue is a positive thing. I think we need all of the venues and avenues for shows that we can possibly get on Long Island right now, even if it is as monopolistic as The Downtown could sometimes be. My biggest beef with places like The Downtown is that they become the be-all end-all venues of the scene. People think because The Downtown closed, the scene is dead, but yet the fact of the matter is people said the same thing when Saints & Sinners closed, too. This is personally what annoys me, and is the only thing I resent about the influence that Saints & Sinners had on the scene. I feel like with the closing of places like Saints & Sinners or The Downtown, this gigantic wave of apathy, laziness and defeat has come over the scene. Nothing is dead, though, unless we believe it’s dead. Nothing’s over unless we believe it’s over, and if we have to go back to the churches, VFW Halls and house shows to do shows, so be it. Unfortunately sometimes I still end up stuck hearing the most hated of phrases in my direction like “Are you still doing shows?” and so I can’t help but get a little bit angry and think “Of course I am! Just because I’m not doing them at Saints & Sinners anymore doesn’t mean they’re not happening anymore! Be brave, and venture out to places like the Smithtown Masonic Temple, Long Island Freespace, or even just that house party you heard some bands were playing in Rocky Point! You’d be surprised at what you get, and how satisfying it can be too!

CZ: Most people raised there have a love/hate relationship with Long Island. What’s your take on Long Island? Are these places where people with good taste secretly hang out?

CKJ: I think it’s perfectly natural and healthy to have a love/hate relationship with Long Island. It shows you’re really thinking about things and that you care about this tiny slab on which a lot of us live. I can’t lie or try to deny that I often struggle with things that I find problematic about Long Island as well, but in the end I always go back to having faith in it again. It’s like being a Catholic in a way, and just because there are some idiots in the religion who do stupid and crazy things in its name, it doesn’t mean I should blame or totally right off Jesus or God or whatever you want to call him/her for that at all. I feel the same way about Long Island, and like it’s only as good or bad as the people on it. If you choose to look at the bad, of course things look abysmal and bleak. If you choose to look at the good though, it’s a lot easier to stay faithful and optimistic about everything. It’s because of that belief that I don’t even believe in “cool hangouts” so much anymore, and I just believe in good people working hard to make a difference. Hell, some people would even say that Saints & Sinners was a cool hangout spot, but I never saw it that way. I just saw myself as a dorky hometown kid trying to make good where I lived. I know that might sound disingenuous in it self too, but I really have no ego about what I did there at all. Maybe it’s the Buddhist in me as well, but I know all great things must come to an end and I know sometimes we just have to start over and rebuild everything back up again. As long as there’s people who can see and understand that fact, Long Island will always be just fine in the end.

CZ: In the height of the Emo explosion, a Newsday article heralded Long Island as “the next Seattle”, which turned out to be premature to say the least. Is the Long Island scene overrated or underrated?

CKJ: I remember that article when it came out and all of the controversy around it at the time. Maybe I’m biased, but I’ve met the writer, Rafer Guzman, and he’s written lots of other good articles about Yes Sensei, The Repercussions, With Every Idle Hour, Thrashed On Fiction, and tons of other unheralded bands around Long Island. I wrote him an e-mail recently teasing him about how he doesn’t come to my shows anymore (Laughs) but he’s just one writer who writes for Newsday and so he can only do so much. If they assign him to go to the last Phish show and he can’t make it to one of my shows because of it, I totally understand. He writes for the mainstream press and their utmost priority is getting as wide a circulation of their advertisers out to as many people as possible. So of course some of his pieces are going to be too underground for the mainstream and too mainstream for the underground, but that’s kind of his fate working for Newsday, and so he obviously can’t be the only writer for the scene anyway. As much as it isn’t so black and white when it comes to him as a writer, it isn’t nearly so black and white when it comes to Long Island either. Just like there were bands like 7 Year Bitch, The Fastbacks, The Gits and many others that didn’t get as much attention during the so called Seattle explosion, there’s also tons of other bands like that in the underground right now on Long Island, and so I wouldn’t say it’s underrated or overrated. I’d say it’s sometimes misrepresented to the world and that articles on “Long Island’s emo explosion” are simply just what sell newspapers like Newsday, but that either way there’s still also a rich and healthy underground on Long Island as well and there always will be.

CZ: Which bands out there don't get the attention they deserve?

CKJ: A question like this opens up a pandora’s box of problems for me when it comes to answering it; because once I list one, I’m going to want to list them all. (Laughs) I’m not sure who or what to say here, or where I should even stop, but I guess if anything I wish people knew more about the wide variety of bands in this area. On The Might Of Princes, before they broke up, were handing out something they pulled together with The Tone Library Collective called the No Nucleus compilation while they were on tour, and bands on it were diverse: With Every Idle Hour, Cipher, Encrypt Manuscript, The Devil Spades, Rachel Jacobs, Slingshot Dakota, Yes Sensei and the Fellow Project. The insane part was, as incredible of an idea as that was for them to do, other great bands like The Repercussions, Trashed On Fiction and The Turnover were still left off of that, too. It never ends, but it kind of makes me happy in a way because I know in my heart of hearts all Long Island truly has to offer the world.

CZ: Are you holding any immediate goals towards Deuces Wild?

CKJ: Besides making those reunion shows happen this winter, I am trying to make Deuces Wild Productions more of a grassroots booking campaign around Long Island. It’s probably a theme you’ve noticed throughout this whole interview (Laughs), but I really feel like Long Island is just in a rebuilding phase right now and so I’d like to do all I can to help build it back up again. This is why, besides the reunion shows I’m working on, I’m most proud of some of the outreach I’ve done to other promoters and folks on Long Island. I’m really proud of the fact that I’m friends with and have formed a bond with Tom Conklin of Thunder Tom.com. I’m really proud of a show I have coming up on the 10th of December I helped put together with Keith of Dirty Friday Booking that Kiss Kiss, Slowlands, Encrypt Manuscript, Dead Birds Don’t Sing, and Otherwise Magnificent are playing at the University Cafe on the SUNY Stony Brook campus [Editor's Note: As of press time, the actual bill for this show has
become Otherwise Magnificent, Kiss Kiss, Aeroplane Pagaent and Johnie Lee Jordan]. If it’s at all possible, I’m also going to try to put some house shows together with Max Santoro of Condensed zine and Mike Andriani of Rok Lok Records as well. I’m really excited about these possibilities as well and making Deuces Wild more of a grassroots thing, because, while I’m excited about the reunion shows in the here and now, I feel like such grassroots efforts are the future of the scene in the year 2006.

CZ: Finally, any last words for the kids?

CKJ: I would just tell them to be kids while they still can. I won’t lie and try to claim this is the best times in their lives. If that was really the case, we’d all be killing ourselves when we turned 18. (Laughs) This is the time in your life when you will have the most freedom though to do whatever the hell you want. Use it wisely. If you want to create something or anything, create it. Start a band. Start a fanzine. Start an art collective. Book music shows. Play an instrument. Play a sport. Paint, draw and try to achieve something beautiful for yourselves. Refuse and resist where you think it needs it. The only time is here, the only time is now. You’re only young once, so, like the movie Dead Poets Society said: “Seize the time! Seize the time!”